To Amen Dunes and Patti Harrison, Comedians and Musicians Are Kindred Spirits

The photo of Amen Dunes was captured by Michael Schmelling.

When Damon McMahon, known as Amen Dunes, considered who to speak to about his latest album, Death Jokes, he thought of some well-known names like Whoopi Goldberg, Martin Shkreli, and Tom Cruise. However, because he is a big fan of comedy, he decided to speak with comedian and actress Patti Harrison because of her unique ability to make fun of modern culture in a strange and abstract way. McMahon believes that there are similarities between musicians and comedians. Death Jokes also features the work of comedy legends like Lenny Bruce and Richard Pryor, with excerpts of their stand-up acts included. McMahon told Harrison during a recent Zoom call that his new album is his way of addressing the issues that people ignore, the things that happen between the lines, and that it is his way of being politically active. During their conversation, they discussed topics like Tim & Eric, the state of the music industry, and the recent allegations made against people who love England.

AMEN DUNES: Hello, Patti.

Hi. Is it okay if I refer to you as Damon, Patti Harrison asked.

HARRISON: I was unsure about whether you preferred to be called Dunes, but if that's your preference, I'm fine with it. I don't want to use a name that you don't identify with anymore. Anyway, it's really great to be here. I'm curious, what made you decide to approach me for your debut interview?

DUNES: That's an excellent query. In actuality, the primary inquiry is, what's our purpose? Shall we merely converse on various subjects?

During an interview I did for Interview Magazine, they were profiling me. I initially assumed it was a mutual interview between two artists. However, the individual who conducted the interview was Tim Heidecker. Now, in this scenario, I am the Tim Heidecker. As such, I will be the one conducting the interview and we can delve into any topics you'd like to explore. It need not revolve around your new album, although it's certainly an interesting topic. We could even discuss any health issues or personal struggles you may be experiencing.

SAND HILLS: I am extremely ill and my condition is deteriorating rapidly.

HARRISON: That's too much information and I cannot support you on that.

SAND HILLS: I had the idea to chat without preparation, which might turn out poorly.

HARRISON: We could end up talking about something really upsetting for both of us, and then get caught up in it and lose track of time.

HARRISON: A gradual release of pent-up anger and negativity flowing into the public view.

SAND HILLS: The individuals questioned, "Who should we inquire from?" Consequently, I suggested a variety of silly individuals.

HARRISON: What about Whoopi Goldberg and Martin Shkreli?

DUNES: The famous Tom Cruise comes to mind. However, I must say I'm quite selective when it comes to comedy. Being a huge fan of Tim & Eric for several years, nothing else seems to measure up. My sibling, who shares the same passion for comedy, has tried to recommend other shows to me but none have piqued my interest as much. That was until they introduced me to I Think You Should Leave [with Tom Robinson]. I remember one scene in particular where you played the role of a wealthy business magnate.

HARRISON: I'm not sure what you mean.

DUNES: In my opinion, the world is pretty old-fashioned and artists tend to play it safe. Most of them just copy others or try to grab people's attention. It's not ideal. However, when I saw your performance, I thought to myself, "She has something unique about her that comes naturally." It wasn't the usual routine. I truly appreciated it.

HARRISON: It's great to hear that and I appreciate your kind words.

DUNES: I'm serious, especially when it comes to comedy, there are a lot of lackluster performances. Do you understand what I'm saying? I believe exceptional comedians possess a certain level of awareness... I could go into more detail and dissection, but it's unnecessary.

HARRISON: I completely agree with your point. The relationship between comedians and musicians is fascinating. They often possess a mutual admiration for each other's abilities to express themselves. I've noticed that many musicians I know prefer to talk about topics outside of music, rather than their own craft.

HARRISON: As a genuine and dedicated musician, when your music resonates with people and they enjoy your performance during live shows, it's a fantastic moment for your fans. They realize that you're not just good with your craft, but you're also funny on stage, which makes the experience all the more enjoyable. However, if a comedian decides to venture into making sincere music or taking on dramatic roles, they may not always get the same positive response. People may question why they're pursuing such endeavors and judge their actions harshly.

SAND MOUNDS: That's factual. I am unsure of the reason behind it.

HARRISON: Anyhow, I'd like to change the topic. Can I inquire about your place of origin?

SAND HILLS: My birthplace was Philadelphia. It's decent, let's keep it uninteresting.

HARRISON: To be frank, when I looked at your photo, I presumed that you were from Scotland.

SAND HILLS: That's pretty neat. I have an admiration for English culture, I guess.

HARRISON: Your hair is the reason why I recognize you easily. Additionally, you appear to be very calm. After watching some of your music videos, I can sense a sense of painful and powerful stoicism in you, probably caused by Scotch. However, setting that aside, let's focus on your new album, which Sub Pop released today. This is a significant accomplishment for you, so congratulations, Damon, or better recognized as Dunes.

HARRISON: What are your sentiments towards the day an album is released?

I've been in the music industry for a while now and I have a lot of thoughts and emotions about it. Recently, the industry has been disappointing and disturbing to me. It's been six years since my last album and I've been making music for 22 years, but it's very different now. I was actually considering quitting music altogether a month ago. However, since releasing my latest album, I've had some heartwarming interactions with fans and deeper interviews, which has made me feel some gratification. When you listen to a recording of your work, it feels amazing and gratifying. But when it's filtered through marketing and digital platforms, it can become nasty. Today, I feel balanced, but I always have mixed feelings about the industry.

HARRISON: Could it be possible that the intense emotions regarding the transformation in the music industry are specifically related to the involvement of TikTok and social media in the music and creative sectors overall? I would take the risk to propose this notion.

Dunes says that their music has always been focused on self-reflection, but their latest album takes a more confrontational approach. It delves into the effects of our digital world on our identities and experiences. The release of the album was a strange experience for them given the subject matter.

HARRISON totally gets it. A lot of his pals work in the music biz and he's seen firsthand how pressure to self-promote can lead to some cringeworthy moments. He's got a stash of cringe TikTok vids showcasing aspiring musicians that he'd never share publicly, because he knows it takes guts to put yourself out there like that. It makes him wonder how sustainable this kind of self-promotion is for artists. He feels for those in the industry dealing with these challenges. He noticed how the struggles of self-promotion were reflected in the lyrics of the album he listened to and in the video for "Around the World". There was a line that struck a chord - essentially, "We're trying to push back, but it's with the systems and tools provided by those in power".

HARRISON: Your music video is absolutely astounding - I regret using such a term to define your creation. Its grandeur and abundance of found footages are remarkable. Your album, along with the music videos emits a particular ambiance facilitated by radio frequencies. I understand it has been six years since you debuted and I also noticed that Freedom was released in 2018.

HARRISON: How has your music journey been since 2018? You mentioned contemplating giving up on music...

I used to create art solely for the sake of creating it. Your work, particularly your stand-up, also seems to have a confrontational and thought-provoking quality to it. Your comedy addresses the issues plaguing our world, even if it's done abstractly. However, in recent years, I was devastated by the state of the world. As a result, I unconsciously started making an album and writing songs that critique what's happening around us. Unlike before, where I would reflect on my innermost thoughts, these lyrics were outward-facing and critical. I never sit down and write with a plan; rather, I let the music flow through me before the words come out.

HARRISON: In my opinion, the abundance of events that occurred during Trump's presidency before the lockdown and the current situation has contributed to increased exposure to distressing news of the world. It has elevated the exposure level, which has resulted in a certain level of psychological trauma.

DUNES: Definitely. This album is basically me delving into all the things people tend to ignore or overlook — all those little things that happen in between the lines. For instance, the pandemic trauma is something that people tend to brush aside and pretend like it never happened. I'm not actually talking about the pandemic itself, but rather the fact that our emotional lives were heightened since Trump came into power. It all reached a boiling point and everyone just seemed to say, "Meh, it's not a big deal, just keep creating content or go perform." Personally, I'm a very sensitive individual and this was the first time I was really affected by it all. Therefore, this album was my way of discussing all those issues. However, what I realized was that people didn't seem to care. It was kind of surreal, to be honest. At first, they just treated it as another piece of content not worth delving into or asking questions about. It was just another swipe on their Instagram feed. This is essentially what I'm exploring throughout this record -- how the global sentiment seems to be, "Who cares? I just want to be fed and stimulated. I don't want to stop and think about anything."

HARRISON expresses deep agreement with a comment about how individuals are taught to prioritize certain things instead of considering larger systems that encourage them to act in particular ways, such as algorithms and apps that manipulate their attention and negatively impact creativity and well-being. Despite this, HARRISON believes there are still individuals who crave the experience of Dunes and have been eagerly anticipating it. Even if technology has affected their mindset, the album is an incredible gift. HARRISON then asks what inspired the album's title, Death Jokes.

In my personal beliefs, I follow a spiritual practice that aligns with Hinduism called Vedanta. The concept of Vedanta teaches that our true identity is not just limited to our physical body; it suggests that our existence goes beyond what we can see and perceive. During the pandemic, I found myself realizing how much I was clinging to my physical form and becoming afraid of my mortality. Through writing these songs, I created a lighthearted reminder not to take myself too seriously and to let go of my attachment to my temporary form. When you listen to the lyrics in my music, you'll notice references to how my music will continue to exist long after I am gone, serving as a reminder to keep my ego in check. This is what I meant by "death jokes."

HARRISON: I should have asked you whether you were Scottish when we first started talking.

DUNES: After working on this album for two years, I came to realize that it spoke to the impact of our society on artistic expression and the ability to take risks in our art. The systems that we surrender to and the norms that we follow contribute to this impact. The album features many comedians, including Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, and George Carlin, who act as social irritants, provoking people to wake up and question what they blindly accept. J Dilla and a famous French woman also make an appearance in the album.

HARRISON: Are you talking about the famous Statue of Liberty?

SAND HILLS: I couldn't find her in that place. I couldn't obtain a sample from her, so she's unable to communicate.

HARRISON: She has the ability to speak, but she tends to be reserved.

Sand Hills: Patti, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

HARRISON: Sure thing. Much appreciation and felicitations.