‘The movie tells you how to make it’: After decades, Coppola’s ‘Megalopolis’ is here

Director Francis Ford Coppola appeared at the Cannes Film Festival in May 2024.

Francis Ford Coppola is famous for his legendary films like Apocalypse Now and The Godfather trilogy. Now, at the age of 85, the independent filmmaker has produced Megalopolis, an ambitious Roman epic set in a futuristic New York City.

The talented ensemble includes Adam Driver in the role of Cesar Catilina, an architect with dreams of creating a perfect society. He finds himself in conflict with Franklyn Cicero, portrayed by Giancarlo Esposito, who is happy to maintain the current state of affairs as the mayor of "New Rome."

Similar to the Roman Republic, our society is afflicted by avarice, political strife, and powerful interest groups. Coppola mentioned to NPR that he views the decline of the Roman Republic as a warning for today's world.

"It's quite abstract and has a lyrical quality," comments actress Aubrey Plaza, who portrays a journalist named “Wow Platinum.” In her conversation with NPR, she expressed her appreciation for Coppola's artistic vision and enthusiasm, but admitted that she initially struggled to understand Megalopolis: "It's a stunningly chaotic experience. It's gorgeous, yet frightening at the same time."

Aubrey Plaza plays the character Wow Platinum in the film Megalopolis.

Coppola started developing Megalopolis in the 1980s and ultimately funded the project himself, using a significant portion of his wealth—about $120 million that he earned from his wine business.

Sam Wasson, who wrote a book titled *The Path to Paradise* focusing on Coppola, believes that the filmmaker has frequently been misinterpreted. He explains that a film centered on the concept of a perfect world, while brimming with innovative ideas and artistic exploration, can be quite challenging to market.

Wasson explained to NPR that many find it difficult to grasp why an artist would invest such large sums in their creative work. This has led to him being viewed negatively in the media, much like a misunderstood Don Quixote.

When filming for Megalopolis started, it quickly grabbed attention in the media. reports from The Hollywood Reporter indicate that the visual effects team was let go, and the art department decided to leave early on in the production. Plaza mentioned to NPR that while she felt the working atmosphere was quite intense, it never gave off the impression that things were falling apart. Additionally, earlier this year, The Guardian and Variety reported allegations that Coppola attempted to touch and kiss background actresses during a nightclub scene without their permission.

Other individuals from the cast and crew refuted claims that Coppola acted inappropriately. However, Variety shared videos online that allegedly show the party scene. Additionally, one of the extras, Lauren Pagone, has launched a lawsuit against the director, accusing him of civil battery and assault. She also claims that Coppola, his production company Zoetrope, and two casting agencies were negligent.

Coppola has filed a $15 million libel lawsuit against Variety. In response, a representative from Penske Media Corporation, which owns Variety, stated to NPR, "We won't discuss ongoing legal matters, but we fully support our journalists."

Coppola mentioned to NPR that he has "no desire to take this to the press." In a recent interview, he expressed his aspirations for both the film industry and for people as a whole.

This interview has been shortened and clarified for easier reading.

Mandalit del Barco: I'd like to discuss Megalopolis with you. I understand it's been a labor of love for you for many years. What message or insight do you hope viewers will gain from this dialogue?

Francis Ford Coppola: To start, the film industry is full of catchy phrases, and often people label projects in specific ways. You mentioned that this is my passion project, but honestly, every film I create is born from passion. All films are passion projects in their own right; there's no one that stands out more than the others. The styles of my earlier works were quite varied. For instance, The Godfather has a classic feel, Apocalypse Now is chaotic, and One From the Heart is very theatrical. This made me ponder what my personal style truly is. I've come to realize that my style is largely influenced by the themes of the films I tackle. As I explored this idea, I thought it would be both enjoyable and exciting to work on a Roman epic.

During my research, I noticed that America was heavily influenced by Rome when it broke away from English rule and rejected the idea of having a king. Historically, the Roman Republic was established for the same reason, as they also wanted to avoid monarchy. Ironically, over time, the Roman senators became focused more on their own power and wealth, which ultimately led to the decline of their republic. I found it intriguing to consider that, as a modern equivalent of Rome, America might be on a similar path, risking a repetition of that historical downfall. This realization seemed particularly insightful and relevant.

del Barco: I understand that you're encouraging the audience to engage in a discussion about their visions of what an ideal world might be like.

Coppola: We could dive deep into this topic or keep it brief. Let's go for brevity. Essentially, it appears that our society revolves around a group of individuals who are dissatisfied or, in other words, unhappy, and this state of discontent is maintained on purpose. The main objective seems to be to sell them small doses of happiness. If people were truly happy, they wouldn’t engage with these products, resulting in poor customer engagement. I believe there are intentional strategies to keep people in an unhappy state to ensure they remain good customers. This situation is quite concerning in today’s world.

del Barco: Amazing. So, with this movie, are you encouraging viewers to reconsider how to transform that?

Coppola: What I request of them is to engage in a conversation, a straightforward question: Is the society we have the only option we can choose? I think if people around the globe simply communicate with one another, we can figure this out together. Essentially, that’s the idea of a utopia.

del Barco: Have your ideas about the film evolved over time?

Coppola: Definitely. Let me clarify—when you have a clear understanding of how to create a film, you tend to follow the rules you believe are in place. However, when you're unsure how to approach filmmaking, as I was with Apocalypse Now, you become more receptive to the film itself guiding you. That's exactly what occurred with Megalopolis. My amazing team, including the actors and other creative staff, all worked together and tuned in to what the film wanted to be. It was like the movie was communicating—suggesting, do more of this, reduce that. This process is how the film developed and took shape. So when you watch it, you'll see it's large in scale and visually stunning. I assume you haven’t seen it yet?

del Barco: I have observed it.

Coppola: Alright. It might not be dull, but your response could be, "What was that? What just happened?" The best way to approach it is to watch it again. It’s similar to Apocalypse Now. Each time you view it, you notice something new. That’s precisely what occurred with Apocalypse Now. It has been playing in cinemas for over 40 or 50 years, and audiences keep coming back to see it. I believe the same experience will unfold with Megalopolis.

In 1976, actor Martin Sheen worked alongside Francis Ford Coppola while filming Apocalypse Now. Coppola was not only the director but also a co-writer for the movie.

del Barco: I'm really saddened to learn about your wife's death. I imagine she played a significant role in the making of this film. I'm curious if her passing had any impact on the creative process.

Coppola: I appreciate your kind words during this difficult time. My wife once told me that I was the most courageous person she had ever known because I always stand up for what I believe in. Today’s film industry, much like the fast food sector, is willing to invest huge sums, like $100 million, into creating a snack that keeps people coming back for more. They prefer to promote a narrow view of cinema, as if only one type of movie exists. However, film is constantly evolving. If you have kids, just think about how different the films your grandchildren will enjoy will be compared to what we have now. Art forms, including film, are dynamic and cannot be confined, even though it's easier for businesses to market if they seem static. There’s a line in my film that reflects this idea: when you embrace uncertainty, you demonstrate your freedom. Artists have a unique ability to break away from the constraints of time and tradition, while professions like law or business often adhere to established norms. In my narrative, this becomes evident. Artists—whether they are filmmakers, painters, or architects—have the power to capture and manipulate time. Filmmakers, in particular, can take the audience back and forth through time...

In my movie Megalopolis, I want to convey the message that everyone is capable of greatness. With a little creativity, there are no limits to what we can achieve. I firmly believe that we should harness our incredible human potential to tackle the challenges of protecting our amazing planet. For those who have watched the film, you might recall that it concludes on an uplifting and celebratory tone, leaving viewers with a sense of joy.

del Barco: Definitely. You don’t often come across experiences like that—on such a large scale in terms of humanity. Another remarkable aspect of this film was that incredible interactive moment where someone in the audience connected with a character on the screen. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the concept of live cinema.

Coppola: Naturally, that's an area I've always found intriguing. When I created my film, One From the Heart, which didn't do very well commercially, my intention was to present it as a live performance that would actually unfold in real time. As I've mentioned, my roots are in theater, and I still balance my involvement in both theater and film. I aim to bring those two worlds together.

del Barco: I understand that you just initiated legal action against Variety for sharing anonymous claims about you that surfaced during filming. They reached out to individuals who mentioned that you—

Coppola: Well, to be honest, let's move on to the next question. I understand why you're bringing it up—there's a legal issue involved. But let's focus on something else. Next question, please.

del Barco: Alright. Just so you know, there's another legal case being brought against you.

Coppola: I'm the person bringing the lawsuit.

del Barco: You're filing a lawsuit, and at the same time, someone is suing you.

Coppola: I'm the one wearing the suit. But honestly, your opinion doesn’t really matter; that question isn’t important to me.

del Barco: I wasn't sure if you were concerned that this might have an impact on the movie.

After the interview with NPR, Coppola’s team released a statement from the director: "In my career spanning over 60 years, I've never encountered a project as challenging and creatively rewarding as bringing Megalopolis to life on screen. This was a collaborative effort involving hundreds of artists, from background actors to major stars, and I have always held the highest respect and appreciation for their contributions."

It’s heartbreaking to witness our joint efforts being undermined by misleading, careless, and irresponsible journalism. No publication, particularly one with a longstanding reputation, should be allowed to rely on hidden cameras and anonymous sources for their financial benefit.

Although I don’t plan to discuss this matter publicly, I am committed to defending my good name and believe that the courts will ensure they are held responsible.

del Barco: Alright. I understand that even during the initial marketing efforts, they mentioned that you've often been misinterpreted and that you're ahead of your era. I'm not sure if that's related to the current situation, though.

Coppola: That's a different situation altogether. When you're creating a film that's completely unique, you sometimes clash with those who prefer traditional methods and want to follow familiar routines. Personally, I enjoy when my films have a somewhat artisanal touch, as if the special effects have a more personal, crafted feel. For instance, in my movie Dracula, the effects were designed to appear as if they were created using mirrors and done by hand, rather than relying on the standard approaches seen in other films.

Despite its vast size, Megalopolis has a very handmade feel to it; it doesn’t give off the vibe of a typical studio film. This sometimes leads to conflicts with those who have been conditioned to operate within a more rigid system. I’ve been in the industry longer than most of them, and I remember how cinema used to function. Today, it resembles a military operation. If you approach one of the five art directors and suggest something, their response might be, “You can’t infringe on my territory.” Instead, you’re expected to go through the head art director. This starkly contrasts the way filmmaking worked for the past six decades that I’ve been involved.

del Barco: Are you concerned that Hollywood is no longer thriving?

Coppola: Let me be honest with you. I have a deep affection for two incredible fields – journalism and the Hollywood industry – both of which are struggling. We're witnessing journalism resorting to citing unnamed sources just to attract clicks and subscriptions, which is not how it should work. On the other hand, filmmaking loses its essence when the primary focus is merely paying off debts. Art inherently involves some level of risk, and if people shy away from that risk, then creating art without any risk is akin to trying to have children without intimacy.

Francis Ford Coppola, who serves as both the writer and director, is collaborating with Adam Driver, who plays the role of Cesar Catilina in the film Megalopolis.

del Barco: When you're creating a film, who do you envision as your audience? Who do you picture sitting in the theater to watch your work?

Coppola: You see, I really care about my audience, who I feel have similar interests to mine. For instance, when I'm watching a film about the Roman Empire, I appreciate having some background knowledge. Most people are often unaware of the reasons behind Rome's establishment of a republic or why the founders of America, who composed the Declaration of Independence, were so tuned into what Rome was all about.

The reason for this is that they all received a solid education, which, at that time, meant they could communicate in Latin. This required them to study texts like Caesar's *Gallic Wars* and to delve into Cicero's confrontations with Catilina. They were familiar with philosophers such as Epicurus, and Latin was a fundamental part of their learning. We are fortunate to have had founders who were highly educated and historically knowledgeable, enabling them to establish a nation that has functioned successfully for over 200 years. Our country stands as a prominent example of the concept of a republic. If we were to lose that during this election, it would be devastating; however, it's worth noting that Rome experienced a similar downfall over 2,000 years ago.

del Barco: This movie is being released during a highly charged political climate, coinciding with an election. It raises important questions regarding the nature of a republic and the essence of our society.

Coppola: Ultimately, the question we need to ask is whether there is any intelligent being—whether it's an octopus, dolphin, parrot, or another creature—that comes close to matching our intelligence. We are a species capable of mapping and altering the human genome, launching spacecraft to capture images of Mars, and even moving icebergs using particle physics. So, how can a politician claim that these beings are merely "animals"? Every individual belongs to the human family—we're all related. It seems like some people belittle others to exert control over them.

Giancarlo Esposito plays the role of Mayor Cicero in the film Megalopolis.

del Barco: It seems you might be targeting certain politicians right now.

Coppola: I believe that any politician who belittles and insults people, especially when I recognize their intelligence, is missing the point. Humans are extraordinary beings. And that's exactly what Megalopolis boldly expresses.

del Barco: So, you took out a $120 million loan on your winery to finance this film? That's not something just any filmmaker can pull off. How viable is this way of funding projects in Hollywood right now?

Coppola: You know, a lot of companies have recently been acquired by other firms, and those firms were often bought out themselves not long before that. As a result, there’s a huge amount of debt piled up.

Even more troubling is that they aren't fully aware of everything they've acquired. I'm more informed about Paramount Pictures than its current owners. This poses a risk because when they purchase it, their legal team might question certain elements, thinking, ‘What’s this part? We don’t need it,’ and then they just eliminate it. However, that could be a crucial component.

Simply put, when you’re purchasing something unfamiliar, some lawyers and accountants might want to discard aspects they don't fully understand. However, movie studios have a lot of different elements. Thankfully, individuals like George Lucas and Martin Scorsese are knowledgeable and advocate strongly to preserve and restore the original components that come with their acquisitions. You get my drift?

del Barco: What are your plans for the future?

Coppola: I've wrapped up Megalopolis because I've started a new project. I'm heading to London for it since it's the only city I've never called home. I’ve never had the chance to share that experience with my wife, whom I think about every day. I miss having someone to share my thoughts with... Even now, with everything going on, I find myself saying, ‘I need to tell Ellie what just happened. I really want to share it with her.’

I used to think that if I moved to a place where I hadn’t shared time with her, she would still occupy my thoughts constantly. However, it wouldn’t be quite the same… I really want to relocate, focus on a new film, and collaborate with English actors. This project is a musical, filled with amazing dance performances, so it should be a lot of fun. I keep mentioning how enjoyable it will be!

del Barco: When you start a new film project, do you approach it with the mindset that it's going to be enjoyable and exciting?

Coppola: Absolutely. I came across a fantastic quote from George Lucas. He mentioned that when you’re making a film, you aim to make it the best it can be under the given conditions. The phrase "given the circumstances" carries a lot of weight, as every film encounters specific challenges that may not align with your vision. You’re faced with a choice: either adjust your approach to fit those challenges or alter the circumstances to align with the film’s needs. I experienced that with both *Apocalypse Now* and *Megalopolis*.